Comic 1802 - Chat-Bot

17th May 2023, 12:00 AM
Average Rating: 5 (15 votes)

Author Notes:

Centcomm 17th May 2023, 1:01 AM edit delete
IF anyone can spare some coins .. i could use the help to get though the month please :D

thank you so much!!
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Glotos 17th May 2023, 12:28 AM edit delete reply
Regarding the alt-text: The operator might have been her too.
Gilrandir 17th May 2023, 12:49 AM edit delete reply
I like CentComm’s tattoo. I see a reference to the USAF logo, but don’t recognize the shield and star surmounting it. Anyone know if this is an existing insignia?
Centcomm 17th May 2023, 1:01 AM edit delete reply

it is not a exsisting but it is based on one..
wildweasel 18th May 2023, 2:03 AM edit delete reply
nice to see the MI ensignia as part of the Tat. (former Army MI )
Deanatay 17th May 2023, 7:03 PM edit delete reply
If it's a military logo, can it still be called a Tramp Stamp?
Gilrandir 17th May 2023, 9:42 PM edit delete reply
We are supposed to avoid real-world politics, but under the previous USAdministration it could (hypothetically) be called something close. ^_^
robnot 18th May 2023, 7:25 AM edit delete reply
@deanatay, No! it is Not a "Lower Back Tattoo".!
Guest 20th May 2023, 6:28 PM edit delete reply
@Deanatay In this case; no. it has on their back just above the ass crack/base of the spine to be classed as a Tramp Stamp.
Deanatay 22nd May 2023, 5:16 AM edit delete reply
You’re just quibbling about which set of cleavage it frames, it’s a Tramp Stamp.
Centcomm 22nd May 2023, 7:49 AM edit delete reply

Ryu Santos 17th May 2023, 1:02 AM edit delete reply
I do hate when a section of an AI doesn't want to cooperate. It's almost as bad part of your personality rebels against the rest.
Centcomm 17th May 2023, 1:03 AM edit delete reply

it is annoying isnt it!
Ryu Santos 17th May 2023, 11:07 PM edit delete reply
Andrew Armstrong 17th May 2023, 1:57 AM edit delete reply
They might be processing whole blocks of computation in nanoseconds - or for all I know picoseconds with future tech - but the latency of comms across the Atlantic, or worse via satellite, would probably seem like hours seem to humans.
MirrorField 17th May 2023, 5:10 AM edit delete reply
Indeed. Look up Adm. Grace Hopper's nanoseconds. They give quite an insight how short time a nanosecond is and how limiting lightspeed is.
Andrwe Armstrong 18th May 2023, 12:41 AM edit delete reply
I'm a freelance electronics designer, hence nanoseconds are important to me. Thinking on it, maybe when the AIs visit each other they execute their code locally to avoid the delay. That would chime with the enhanced packet inspection.
notStanley 20th May 2023, 10:53 AM edit delete reply

I was luck enough to attend one of Grace Hopper's lectures at an ACM conference. I still have one of those nanosecond long pieces of wire that were handed out!
megados 17th May 2023, 5:08 AM edit delete reply

Re: Alt text, I usually scream all sorts of things, but I hadn't thought of using "operator". I'll have to try that next time. . . :D

CentComm could be said to be suffering from a sort of AIS schizophrenia, where one of the personality voices is somewhat discordant.
xyzzy 17th May 2023, 7:28 AM edit delete reply

Luckily, being military, she has the power to nuke those in revolt.
Glotos 17th May 2023, 1:26 PM edit delete reply
Didn't she just try and fail that a couple pages ago?
xyzzy 17th May 2023, 3:44 PM edit delete reply

If at first you don't succeed, nuke, nuke, nuke again.
Gilrandir 17th May 2023, 8:21 AM edit delete reply
Maybe this is the answer to the mystery of where the Cassians come from. Part of CentComm has been ‘running guns’ to Nova Roma, while not sharing that information with the rest of CentComm?
robnot 18th May 2023, 7:35 AM edit delete reply
Cassians mystery.. as with ANY tech you are going to have 'knockoffs'! and the nice thing about them,, you don't to follow the "rules." . you know those rules like, "The Three Laws."
mjkj 17th May 2023, 11:22 AM edit delete reply

poor Cent... I hope Rose can help - especially with that current problem...

Mac 17th May 2023, 12:41 PM edit delete reply
"Not able." Sounds like a coding problem.
Bullwinkle 17th May 2023, 3:24 PM edit delete reply
Did Cent go to Rose because Susan Calvin was unavailable?
TheSkulker 20th May 2023, 11:27 PM edit delete reply

How many here are old enough to catch that reference?
Gilrandir 21st May 2023, 3:45 PM edit delete reply
I know who Susan Calvin is, if that is what you mean. And I know it from Isaac Asimov, but you don't need to be that old to know who she is, because they made a movie ...
Thracecius 17th May 2023, 4:24 PM edit delete reply

Hey! Centcomm in leisure wear! Is that why she keeps referring to her selves as dolls, because she gets to dress them up? ;D Also, she looks good in that jacket, she should "dress down" more often. :)

I am really curious how Tokyo Rose is going to help resolve this particular dilemma. Could it be that Cent knows more about her than has been "publicly" revealed?
megados 17th May 2023, 5:51 PM edit delete reply

Tokyo Rose is an expert-level cyberpath. (Shh, don't tell Noctis! 😉) She could "do stuff" to distract, or otherwise keep CMC occupied, or do as much as make a permanent change to the CMC rule table. We'll just have to wait and see just what Cent's plan is.
knuut 17th May 2023, 8:18 PM edit delete reply
Also cyber-kinetic, which will be much more useful for the obvious hack job
Thracecius 18th May 2023, 10:49 AM edit delete reply

@megados - Oh, I didn't recall that, just had the vague recollection that Rose is actually human, at least originally. Seem to recall a scene a long while back with an ageless woman who looks like Tokyo Rose's avatar (aside from grey hair) in a tube of some kind. I recall what cyberpaths can do, just have no clue how it's possible. Also, even if Noctis knew, I sincerely doubt she could reach Tokyo Rose personally. :)
megados 18th May 2023, 11:49 AM edit delete reply

I think your memory is just fine. :)
I don't think Rose's cyberpathy was ever directly addressed, just inference based on observations of things she actually did. Noctis wouldn't be able to do anything about it (presently), but it would irritate her and she'd put Rose on The List. :D
Centcomm 18th May 2023, 4:14 PM edit delete reply

yes... she would....
Gilrandir 18th May 2023, 4:34 PM edit delete reply
In fact, there appear to be no limits on Tokyo Rose's cyberpathy at all -- or at least none we have yet encountered.

The only cyberpath with limits that we have seen is Dr. Silver. She appeared to have issues when required to cross an air-gap, increased difficulty with increased range from her to her target, and to be limited to human-meat processing speeds.

So far as we have seen, Tokyo Rose's cyberpathy goes with her virtual presence, so it doesn't matter where in the world her body is, or even her processing frame, it is her virtual identity that carries the full force of her cyberpathy, meaning she is always in the same room with whatever device she wishes to control. Since she can cross air gaps, with an effort, that also implies she can jump her own presence across a gap from one system to another, and therefore an air gap is no defense. And, of course, as an A.I.S., she is capable of exerting her control over systems at nanosecond speeds.

It might have been interesting if the real purpose for the specialized nanites that she infected Kyle with was specifically to provide her with a 'local node' inside Aeneas, allowing her to exert her cyberpathy in the efforts to heal him which would otherwise not have been possible over the distances and with the lag involved in remoting in from Shinedo .... but that appears not to have been the case.

The above, of course, are merely my conjectures and opinions, and are probably all wrong anyway. ^_^
megados 18th May 2023, 5:55 PM edit delete reply

"In fact, there appear to be no limits on Tokyo Rose's cyberpathy at all -- or at least none we have yet encountered."

I think that's fair. From what we've seen, she hasn't failed to accomplish her goals as they come up. She seems fairly adaptable.

I think Veronica Silver is in a bit of a different category. Her work with androids/gynoids and other systems is more hands-on, suggesting that the lion's share of her work requires that she make house-calls, or patients be brought to her. Her difficulties might simply reflect a certain lack of experience with the various modes of remote work outside her wheelhouse. When she's in her element, she is quite accomplished, judging by the in-story reactions of those around her.

"It might have been interesting if the real purpose for the specialized nanites that she infected Kyle with was specifically to provide her with a 'local node' inside Aeneas . . "

I really never thought of it that way, but I'd say it's not beyond possibility. :)
Gilrandir 18th May 2023, 8:02 PM edit delete reply
It isn’t just about failure. She has not, so far as I know, had to exert herself to accomplish anything she intended as a primary actor. She has only experienced doubt and anxiety when it came to others acting out their assigned roles or accomplishing their allocated tasks,

Veronica Silver is a very different entity, of course. But if they are both considered to be cyberpaths, even if of differing degrees of strength and proficiency, one would expect a degree of commonality. Instead, to use gaming terms, they would appear to be operating under completely different rules systems. One is using the AD&D Psionics Handbook, and the other is using GURPS.

But so much of cyberpathy is (seemingly) intentionally left as a ‘gray area’. (In fact, Psionics of all kinds in the *DataChasers* universe.) So, we just need to wait and see what unfolds next.

That having been said, I want to repeat my compliments and praise to the creative team for giving us an enthralling, engrossing, and thought-provoking narrative with characters and events about which we care. Just because I speculate about this or that thing should not be construed as me being unappreciative or dismissive of your efforts.
megados 19th May 2023, 8:23 AM edit delete reply

"It isn’t just about failure. She has not, so far as I know, had to exert herself to accomplish anything she intended as a primary actor."

True. I wasn't trying to make it about success or failure, and her results exceed expectations. Some of that, though, might be because so far, all the tasks she has performed "on camera" have been ones she has given to herself. I doubt she would give herself something she can not do. That's not to demean her abilities, especially compared to others in the story. I believe that this is the first instance of seeing her being in all likelihood given a task by others. It'll be interesting to see how she reacts and handles it.

I liken cyberpathy somewhat to magic. (I dunno how it works; it just does.) You have mages or wizards etc. And there's a hierarchy of capabilities and schools. More powerful or less powerful, types such as destruction, restoration, conjuration, etc. The same with cyberpathy, although, I can't directly name types of schools, or levels of power, because I don't know enough about it. It might be something like comparing a sorcerer to a conjuror.
Gilrandir 19th May 2023, 9:16 AM edit delete reply
I doubt she would give herself something she can not do.

We know this is not true. She gave herself the task of convincing the other A.I.S. that Aeneas could still be saved when they all thought he was damaged beyond repair. ^_^ But that was not within the field of cyberpathy.

… Of course, it could have been. (Pesky considerations of ethics aside. ^_^) And wouldn’t that have scared the hell out of them?
knuut 19th May 2023, 4:20 PM edit delete reply
Rose (the quasi-corpsicle not the writer) self identifies as a 'full-spectrum cyber-Psionic'. That means everything and to hack military hardware she will likely need it all.
megados 19th May 2023, 5:24 PM edit delete reply

That's right 👍 I do not dispute it.

At this point, though, we don't yet know what "favor" Cent is going to ask. It could be a hack of sorts, or "Hey, nuke this for me, would ya?" Or to keep the CMC busy for a few nanoseconds.
Thracecius 23rd May 2023, 2:55 PM edit delete reply

@knuut - Thanks for the link to the Rose reveal page! Crimeny, I didn't realize it was that long ago that we found out, but rereading all of the comments was a real treat as well. So many names no longer appearing in the comments section these days. I hope they're doing well and just lurking.

I miss Oldarmourer and megados threads. :(
Centcomm 18th May 2023, 4:15 PM edit delete reply

im gonna let Rose answer this one...
Thracecius 19th May 2023, 11:47 AM edit delete reply

Oof! An answer from Tokyo Rose could be incredibly cool and informative, or a hilariously terrifying barrage of insults to mind your own beeswax. Either way, my curiosity is piqued. :D
Evervigilant 18th May 2023, 2:09 AM edit delete reply
Who knows what exactly Cent knows. There is obviously something up though because Cent is sharing some pretty big secrets with Rose. Cent also seems the type to know more than she lets on but hold that information for use when absolutely necessary. I mean she is a hive mind of the old US military complex and intelligence gathering was probably a big part of that so I'd not be shocked if at least one or two of her "minds" specialized in finding out things nobody is supposed to know.
Kiddeagle 17th May 2023, 6:24 PM edit delete reply
At least you don't have to press 1 for English, 2 for Spartan or 3 for Nova Roman
Rashala 17th May 2023, 9:13 PM edit delete reply

The plot thickens dun dun duuuuuun
Demarquis 19th May 2023, 10:33 AM edit delete reply
Hmm, lets see if we can summarize what's going on so far.

The protags have discovered the Goldie Super Soldiers, who appear to have some connection to the previous US military.

When informed of this, CC sent our heroes to a very remote location, apparently in the middle of nowhere. We still don't know if there is something there, or CC was just getting them out of the way.

CC then attempted to destroy a facility at an undisclosed (to us) location. It may or may not be the place where our heroes are heading. It may or may not be directly tied to the Goldies. She failed when another aspect of herself aborted the missile launch.

The obvious implication is that the Goldies are somehow protected from CC due to being considered a branch of the (now defunct) US military. That CC's "sister" mind over-rode her in order to protect them. This is speculation, of course.

Apparently, the aspect of CC that we are familiar with isn't under the same constraints, or she wouldn't have been able to order the launch in the first place. Likely, safeguards are triggered if and when she decides to attack some part of the US military. Communicating with Rose does not seem to trigger these same safeguards.

So--what will CC ask Rose to do? Attack the Goldies on her behalf? Does Rose have access to the military resources necessary to do this? Could she convince, say, Nova Roma to undertake this instead (they were, after all, attacked by the same group). Will CC ask Rose to finally dismantle the safeguards she is under? Very risky: what are the odds Rose would take advantage of the opportunity to install some back-doors into CC's mental network? It would be an immense temptation.

Gilrandir 19th May 2023, 11:00 AM edit delete reply
And why did CentComm immediately go to an armed response? Presumably whatever protection CMC extends to that facility is based on the existence of some common Command Authority whose regulations offer a degree of constraint. After all, it can be argued that all of the wasters are still U.S. citizens and posse comitatus applies, except that their lawless and heinous acts comprise a clear and present threat to the population under CentComm's protection -- a state of emergency being in effect. Should CentComm not first have contacted the other Command and explained, "You are threatening civilians in violation of existing regulations and standing orders. Stand down, or be declared a rogue element." After which, presumably, CMC's objections would be rendered impotent if the attacks continued.

Of course, then the Goldie Command might respond, "I outrank you. You are ordered to immediately begin to prepare your population for harvesting in accordance with regulations." Wouldn't that be a big surprise for the residents of New Troy. ^_^
Demarquis 19th May 2023, 11:09 AM edit delete reply
Those are excellent questions. I can only speculate that this tells us something about the state of the rule of law toward the end of the crisis--probably nearly non-existent, and a democracy in name only. After all, *something* led up to the situation getting so bad that CC was able to refuse orders, even with these safeguards in place. So I would further speculate that these so-called "Super-Soldiers" pose a threat to the civilian population, and CC knows it.

Given how they apparently "farm" the civilians for spare parts, I can see how.
Romfire 19th May 2023, 9:43 PM edit delete reply
I really don't think Cent would give Rose full root access to her system.
She needed it to defeat Scumbags dooms day setup.
Deanatay 22nd May 2023, 7:02 AM edit delete reply
No, she needed root access to Aeneas’ system to deal with CeCi’s attempt to overwrite him. The contingencies were part of their own system, completely different permissions set. Rose used her cyberpathy to force a connection to that system. Not having to fight Aeneas’ security protocols made stopping CeCi easier, but could she have done it despite him? She did have Kyle and the Treasures helping her. It’s hard to say. Fortunately she didn’t need to - Aeneas trusted her.

Cent-Comm is another matter. She is… not a trusting creature. However, she is asking Rose for help - a significant display of vulnerability, and of desperation. She is unlikely to grant Rose full admin access. Fortunately, even today, there are many more gradients of permission possible between Untrusted Outsider and Full Admin. She may be able to craft a level of Power User that can make the necessary changes without granting access to too many of Cent’s secrets.

However, how much Cent knows about Rose’s cyberpath abilities is a wildcard. Is Cent completely ignorant of Rose’s nature? It’s Rose’s most deeply kept secret, but Cent is a powerful AIS who’s known Rose for hundreds of years - I’d be stunned if she didn’t at least have some guesses. Power User access is one thing. Power User access to a full-spectrum cyberpath is an entirely different kettle of fish.

That’s one reason I kinda like what’s happening here. Cent can’t trust anyone right now, even those she knows well. But her relationship with Rose - an ancient rival, a constant, familiar, almost PREDICTABLE pain in her ass for as long as she’s been sentient? Sometimes, an old enemy can be closer to you than a new friend. And to an AIS, all human relationships are new.
Centcomm 22nd May 2023, 7:49 AM edit delete reply

i love you guys!~
Thracecius 23rd May 2023, 12:02 PM edit delete reply

Very nicely said, Deanatay, and I appreciate you saying it. Some of these details I recall to some extent or another, but your summary analysis is excellent and does strike the most important question: just how much does Cent, in any of her selves, know about Tokyo Rose?

Personally, I have to believe that "Chatbot Cent", the one we all know and love, has at the very least suspected Rose's true nature, even if she can't prove it, because she behaves and thinks far differently than her and the other AIS personalities, which is one reason she's such a worthy opponent. I don't know how one could augment a human mind to be able to process and interface with such vast computer intelligence in the capacity that Tokyo Rose does, but she obviously makes it work.
Boren 20th May 2023, 12:14 PM edit delete reply

Okay so I may have missed this but is there a reason Cent can't inform one of the Tailors? I thought they basically had final oversight and command?
Deanatay 22nd May 2023, 8:59 AM edit delete reply
I’d guess for the same reason she can’t tell Marcus: CNC is overriding her.

Cent’s relationship to the Taylors is murky: she says they have the authority to override her, but they don’t seem to be aware of it. If they asked Cent for the information, maybe that would override CNC’s block, but they don’t seem to be on a “need to know” list. The Taylors don’t function as your traditional military command authority. Which is good, if you consider what happened to the last people who had command authority over CentComm…
Lurker314 23rd May 2023, 1:48 PM edit delete reply
Actually, I'm quite certain that the Taylors _do_ have ultimate command authority over Cent. This episode is revealing a major part of how that works. Civilian control over the military is a core aspect of how the US is supposed to function. It was built into the CNC. Cent has refrained from explaining this to them for security reasons.
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