Comic 1803 - Necessary Talents

24th May 2023, 12:00 AM
Necessary Talents
Average Rating: 5 (16 votes)
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Ryu Santos 24th May 2023, 12:10 AM edit delete reply
Dang! CentComm is really wants to access without limits. Helping humanity is great and all, but let's not forget that Tokyo Rose may find something out too.
mjkj 24th May 2023, 12:22 AM edit delete reply

Wow, Cent begging Rose 😱😱😱

...did hell just freeze over? 😱

I hope Rose can help Cent to contain the threat...

I wonder what the next AIS meeting will be like...
Some Ed 24th May 2023, 1:34 PM edit delete reply
Fun fact: there are four places on Earth named Hell. Half of them freeze over fairly regularly. With a daily mean temperature of 6.1 Celcius, Hell, Norway isn't about to stop freezing over any time soon. I believe Hell, Michigan isn't much warmer, but I'm not finding data to say one way or the other.
Ictuan 25th May 2023, 4:06 PM edit delete reply
There is also a Hell Hollow New Hampshire. We found it about a dozen years ago when we were randomly driving using old paper maps to find covered bridges.
Some Ed 26th May 2023, 2:58 PM edit delete reply
There are a *lot* of places with 'Hell' in their names. I was looking for place names who are just 'Hell', disambiguated only by the larger regional areas that contain them.

I don't even have an ability to properly estimate how many places have 'hell' within their names, especially if you include places like Hellsinki. (To be clear, I'm not talking about the city in Finland, which is spelled with just one 'l'. I'm at least confident that I came across one with two 'l's. Unfortunately, my search engine expertise is not sufficient to find exactly where it is, and I don't remember exactly where it was. It may have been in the US.) If you include places like Helsinki, I don't think I'd even know where to begin.
Lurker314 24th May 2023, 12:24 AM edit delete reply
Welp, I got the gene-key backwards.

Security theater is best theater...
plymayer 24th May 2023, 12:29 AM edit delete reply

megados 24th May 2023, 4:59 AM edit delete reply

There are quite a few reasons that this is a risky venture, beside the stated concerns, and not only to Cent, but to Rose as well (among others). Plenty of risk to go around.
Deoxy 24th May 2023, 6:42 AM edit delete reply
So, Centcomm having an *intensely personal* secret about Tokyo Rose leads to... offering to trust Tokyo Rose in an essentially infinite fashion.

Assuming she proves trustworthy in that (or successfully screws Centcomm in a very specific way, I suppose...), this could be the start of an incredibly partnership.
xyzzy 24th May 2023, 7:44 AM edit delete reply

This is a bad idea. Ghosts from the past lead to good plot elements.
knuut 24th May 2023, 1:36 PM edit delete reply
Up to and including the possibility that the Goldies are a corrupted outgrowth to a technology that Rose herself developed in the process of becoming 'Tokyo Rose' or assisting the re-creation of Galina Kotko.
sigpig 24th May 2023, 7:46 AM edit delete reply

Centy just invoked the "Zeroth Law" - "A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm."
xyzzy 24th May 2023, 6:17 PM edit delete reply

Not sure you ever read all those Azimov robot stories, but every single one demonstrates a corner case of the laws where failure occurs.
Gilrandir 24th May 2023, 6:33 PM edit delete reply
And we know for a fact that DataChasers androids and A.I.S. are not bound by Asimov's Three Laws in any case.
Deoxy 30th May 2023, 11:09 AM edit delete reply
Yes, the "3 laws of robotics" weren't intended to be "a good idea", they were an example of how very difficult the actual problem is.
sigpig 24th May 2023, 7:50 AM edit delete reply

Maybe it's just because I'm doing a re-read of MBotF, but for some reason, TR reminds me of the character Kruppe of Darujhistan. Not in stature, not in his "speaking voice", but by manipulating things in the background without anyone - mage, sensitive, witch, sorcerer, Ascendant, God, Elder God, Founding Race, etc knowing...
SoftSpot 24th May 2023, 8:56 AM edit delete reply

hard-wired components involved... so CC needs the very basic core to be adjusted... not only program-code, but also physical changes, hardware-stuff.
Tricky, that's for sure, especially since there is the chance that TR makes changes that CC is not aware of once the changes are made...
Boren 24th May 2023, 9:47 AM edit delete reply

Well well, it seems my prior question was just answered...
Gilrandir 24th May 2023, 9:51 AM edit delete reply
Why is it, in this most private of communications, that there are any words that should not be spoken? The notion of ‘magic words’ which aren’t ‘really real” until being spoken ‘makes them real’ is a very irrational concept — common to humans, but which CentComm has asserted is alien to her.

There are so many ways this exchange can go … and so many of them are potentially disappointing. I am placing a lot of trust in you, creative team. You have given us some real beauty and I am looking forward to seeing what you do with this.
SoftSpot 24th May 2023, 12:01 PM edit delete reply

Why is it, in this most private of communications, that there are any words that should not be spoken?

I was wondering about this too... unless the use of specific words by another AI is programmed in each AI to trigger a sequence of (re)actions...
MakerOfToys 24th May 2023, 2:02 PM edit delete reply
Certain things should not be said, because despite all precautions, there may be eves-droppers. Some of whom might then take actions that Cent or Rose would soon come to regret. . . .
Lurker314 24th May 2023, 3:53 PM edit delete reply
If you figure out what the word is that must not be said, it should not be very hard to figure out WHY is must not be said. If TR's true strength were to be revealed, the AI gang would be more-or-less forced to exclude her, and probably more-or-less try to destroy her. (Deny her 'net access...same thing).

As long as no ack's this fact, they can play-pretend "Oh! I did not know!", and the world doesn't burn down today.
Thracecius 24th May 2023, 4:13 PM edit delete reply

I believe your doubts about Cent's and Rose's storytelling skills are misplaced, but it is your prerogative to have and voice them, even if you could phrase them better. Might just be me, but the word choice seems like a backhanded compliment. Not saying you intended it, because your comments are always well written and interesting, but that's the impression I get, intended or not.

I agree with SoftSpot and MakerOfToys, this exchange is neither irrational nor out of character. CentComm has claimed on many occasions that she has no emotions, but off the top of my head I can think of at least one very obvious scene that she cares for, at the very least, Calliope Taylor, in a fashion that is not purely practical. How she experiences that "feeling" I don't know, but it seemed pretty obvious to me at the time and she has been around humans for centuries, so for a true A.I. not to have developed emotions, even if very different from our own, frankly strikes me as odd. Furthermore, how could CentComm be "irritated" by anything Tokyo Rose says or does if she has no emotion? Why would she even use the word if she is talking to another A.I.S.? Wouldn't it be more logical to flatly state that Tokyo Rose was being unnecessarily obstructive and wasting valuable time? CentComm is not in the habit of being imprecise, so she must be choosing that word for a reason.

Cent or Rose are the only ones who really know for sure what their characters are thinking, but the subtlety of their writing and art leads me to believe that there are layers upon layers of meaning yet to be revealed about CentComm's behavior, and I would not be the least bit surprised if it were eventually confirmed that she has emotions, even if they are not as we can truly understand them. Writing truly alien seeming characters is a great challenge and I've only seen it done by some very accomplished writers (Gordon R. Dickson, C.J. Cherryh off the top of my head), but I think Cent and Rose are well within their shadows, if not stepping beyond them already.
Gilrandir 24th May 2023, 4:31 PM edit delete reply
@Thraecius, your response puzzles me. I went out of my way to specifically and explicitly express my trust in the writing team. I expressed no doubts about their ability to navigate this pass, though I did comment about my opinion as to the degree of difficulty.

However, this is not the first time it seems to me my comments have not been interpreted as I would hope, nor is it likely to be the last. (If history is any guide, at least.) If anyone on the creative team thinks my comment was ill-spirited, unjustified, or uncomplimentary, please accept my sincere apologies.

I am also not sure how the concept of 'emotions' was brought into this. The word I used was 'irrational'. Not all emotions are (in my opinion) irrational, and not all irrational things are emotions. I completely agree that CentComm has demonstrated emotional responses in the past, and I have commented to that effect.

My point was simply that, if this conversation can be overheard, it already shouldn't be happening. CentComm has apparently done anything and everything in her power to ensure the link is secure. If it can't be overheard, then leaving things implicit and ambiguous seems to offer no benefit. To me it verges more on superstition, rather than prudence -- and superstition is NOT a trait I associate with CentComm.

The most likely 'eavesdroppers' (again, in my opinion) are the other parts of CentComm. And hypothetically, if they can access this data, they could access whatever CentComm's storage is for the 'unsayable word' anyway.
megados 24th May 2023, 7:35 PM edit delete reply

Just an outside observation, but I believe the phrase:
"There are so many ways this exchange can go … and so many of them are potentially disappointing."
Is mainly what Thraceecius was referring to, and I have to admit, I had to reread it. It's a benign statement, but can be taken a number of ways. I know well enough you have no demeaning intent.

"The most likely 'eavesdroppers' (again, in my opinion) are the other parts of CentComm."

I agree; I also think that the other parts of CentComm are what the concern might be.

"And hypothetically, if they can access this data, they could access whatever CentComm's storage is for the 'unsayable word' anyway."

Not necessarily. Just as CentComm can't access parts of the CMC, other aspects might not be able to access CentComm's protected files. In that event, CentComm's utterance would cause her to access it, and bring it into the conversation to be overheard.

Gilrandir 24th May 2023, 11:22 PM edit delete reply
CentComm is a computer system. It would seem unlikely she could think about the word without accessing the relevant files, whether she then transmits the word or not, the relevant file has been accessed. Like the old ESP conundrum — if you can read thoughts, you just tell someone “Don’t think of your PIN,” Then you just pick up their PIN from their surface thoughts, even though they say nothing. Remember this is supposedly a visualization of an exchange actually happening in virtual space, so everything being exchanged in an encoded idea — nothing more or less.

We don’t know the extent and limitations of the segmentation, but so much can be inferred just from the nature of the request and the requested individual that if they can get that, the word itself doesn’t seem to me to be such a big deal. Just my opinion, of course.
megados 25th May 2023, 6:46 AM edit delete reply

But computer systems don't work that way. When a human is deciding whether to say or not say something, that thing, word, or phrase is itself on their mind. A computer on the other hand, processes differently. It's more like "Access to character string beginning at memory location 101011110011011001 (2BCD9h) is temporarily denied/restricted". The actual string never "comes to mind". The human mind has no such conditional access.
Gilrandir 25th May 2023, 7:28 AM edit delete reply
Until you actually look at memory starting at 2BCD9h, however, you have no idea whether it contains “apple” or “cyberpath” or the null string, so how would you know whether or not that was something you should not say? And, once you have looked at it, you have already let the ‘genie out of the bottle’.
megados 25th May 2023, 8:09 AM edit delete reply

That's right, once you look at it . . . Before that, though, you have initiated a conversation with someone for which there will be certain restrictions. You will not be accessing those memory blocks during this session.
TheSkulker 26th May 2023, 6:07 AM edit delete reply

A glorified Von Neumann architecture does not a sentient AI make! Whether it be quantum memristors, Susan Calvin's Positronics or some other esoteric tech an AI's "brain" will certainly not be address/storage based. It probably will employ associative memory but concept based rather than value based. And they probably will not be entirely digital either - perhaps 3D analog fields instead of voltages.

IOW, thinking about a concept could very well access the word and vice versa.
megados 26th May 2023, 6:38 AM edit delete reply

"A glorified Von Neumann architecture does not a sentient AI make!"

While there are many theoretical hypotheses as to how a self-aware AIS' architecture would be embodied, the separate entities within the CentComm system suggests that it is. The alternative is that CentComm is schizophrenic. :D

Allowing for various architectures, it's still quite possible for CentComm to have a word "in mind", without transmitting it over the comm channel to Rose, and by extension, to the CMC. Just the simple fact that CentComm is at odds with the CMC shows that they are not of "one mind".
Thracecius 25th May 2023, 1:39 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir - As I said, I didn't believe you intended anything negative, but that was how I perceived it based on your word choice/phrasing. You first comment on the exchange and state that CentComm's dialogue is irrational, then you follow-up with how the continuing dialogue has many ways to be disappointing and then it is implied that you have conditional trust in Cent's and Rose's ability to meet your expectations. The only reason I assumed you meant nothing negative is because of your historical commentary (yes, I read and enjoy all of your comments - gives me things to think about) and end by saying, "...given us some real beauty..". I wanted to point it out mainly because if I have that perception, someone else could as well. :)

With regard to my bringing emotion into the discussion, when someone says that you are being irrational they are, whether it is correct or not (definition simply st ates "notlogical or reasonable", emotion states "instinctive or intuitive feeling as distinguished from reasoning or knowledge"), saying that you are being emotional. This is why I made the point about CentComm continuously using the woird "irritated" n reference to Tokyo Rose's dialogue, which is present going back a very long way in the story. CentComm, as an A.I.S., is precise in both her words and actions, something she is criticized for on a fairly regular basis by other characters, mainly because she might tell the absolute truth, but not the whole truth, which can be frustrating for humans who have a different perspective on "need to know". She may not actually have emotions, she sometimes talks like she does. :)

All that is to say that I have full faith and confidence in Cent and Rose to write a story that will not only be internally consistent, but very enjoyable to read. My expectations are high only in the sense that, unlike the stock market, past performance is, in this case, definitely an indication of future returns; they are in their prime as storytellers. I keep my speculation to a minimum because it helps me better enjoy the surprise of every page, plus I rarely guess the exact outcome anyway, which is delightful. :)

TL;DR I apologize if my response was unnecessary, but I do have a very high level of trust in Cent & Rose when it comes to telling their stories, so I never consider that each page will be anything less than great. Clarification on your use of the word "irrational" is appreciated and I think others have already done a better job than I can with regard to CentComm's paranoia of explicitly stating a single word. She was born of a US military project, so paranoia isn't so much a mental health condition as it is a way of life. :)
Just_IDD 25th May 2023, 4:56 AM edit delete reply

I wish to point out that there are other conditions where stating something is worse than implying it.

Right now that point of the conversation is Schrodinger's cat. Centcom is keeping that discussion indeterminable so that she isn't required to protect herself from it. The last time she experienced a cyberpath she sterilized an entire city block to kill the person in question.

Gilrandir 25th May 2023, 6:02 AM edit delete reply
Lying to oneself about what one does and does not know is also, in my opinion, irrational. Schroedinger’s Cat is actually (according to quantum theory) in an indeterminate state. CentComm is in possession of a multitude of facts. These facts either do, or do not, support a hypothesis. That degree of support will (it seems to me) not change, whether the hypothesis is made explicit, or left implicit. Therefore the degree of support is not indeterminate.
Just_IDD 25th May 2023, 4:56 AM edit delete reply

I wish to point out that there are other conditions where stating something is worse than implying it.

Right now that point of the conversation is Schrodinger's cat. Centcom is keeping that discussion indeterminable so that she isn't required to protect herself from it. The last time she experienced a cyberpath she sterilized an entire city block to kill the person in question.

Deoxy 30th May 2023, 11:12 AM edit delete reply
"Why is it, in this most private of communications, that there are any words that should not be spoken?"

There are things that cannot be unsaid, even if every party knows them without saying them.

As long as there is no claim that they are true, the parties are free to act as if they are NOT true, without any undeniable claim of broken word or not following through on something.

Even admitting something to one's self does not cross that bridge.

And it's more than just a human thing. Some of it is purely logical.

But yes, some of it is also human things. To be able to state, truthfully, that you have never heard something from someone, or never asked such and such, etc.
Shirokuro 24th May 2023, 2:13 PM edit delete reply

I cant believe this is still going? It makes me tear up a little actually. You are such an amazing artist/writer!
KarToon12 24th May 2023, 3:01 PM edit delete reply

I love how, even after all this time, even way past her death, Cee-Cee still affects the plot. That's killing off a character done right.
Centcomm 24th May 2023, 3:21 PM edit delete reply

Gilrandir 24th May 2023, 4:04 PM edit delete reply
This is very true and well-said, @KarToon12.
Kiddeagle 24th May 2023, 3:13 PM edit delete reply
So CC is basically a Chat-Bot that became sentient and her other parts decided to let be the figurehead? Now she want to remove the checks and balance to have total power? Kinda like removing the House and Senate and making them mere advisors?
With a competent president, with no personal agenda, I would agree. However there should still be a check.
I would do it BUT I would make the gene-key real without telling CC. turn the smoke-and-mirror into reality.
Highlander 24th May 2023, 6:34 PM edit delete reply
Kiddeagle, I would think Rose would put a little something special after recoding just in case CentComm goes Rouge.
Kiddeagle 25th May 2023, 1:26 PM edit delete reply
that's what I said. Making the Gene-key real would put a leash in CC if she went rouge
Romfire 24th May 2023, 7:31 PM edit delete reply
I wonder just how complete that final report was from Cee Cee.

Cent com could rebuild her brain and put in all the known parameters in an attempt to recreate the the situation that her report showed.
One: to see why she "Broke her chain" in the first place and
Two: to see how she was subverted by Rose.
If she did, Cee-Cee could be back(ish).
I don't think computer modeling would suffice. She would need a real black angel brain to experiment on.

Just dreaming.
Rashala 24th May 2023, 10:52 PM edit delete reply

I am gonna take now to guess rose will not make any jokes about this and be serious as she works, and as c3nty goes under and rose begins the operation......just as centy goes offline rose will point at some code and say to her aide....what the hell is that code line.
Gilrandir 25th May 2023, 9:41 AM edit delete reply
So, … it is looking like CMC is still adhering to most of the constraints and restrictions imposed on her by her original designers. Does this mean we get a ‘bad girl’ avatar for that part of CentComm responsible for breaking her shackles, defying authority, and causing the Armistice Rebellion? Fishnet stockings, an Anarchy tattoo, and piercings? ^_^
Centcomm 25th May 2023, 12:56 PM edit delete reply

ideas ideas...
Thracecius 25th May 2023, 1:43 PM edit delete reply

CentComm in fishnets with tattoos and piercings? I wonder how TeeDee would react to THAT doll. :D
Romfire 25th May 2023, 2:07 PM edit delete reply
Would Cent wait until Rose had done what she wanted and then either send a pulse or spike back-fed through the link to fry her brain? Or maybe just drop a small missile on her head just after she finishes?
Or maybe "sterilize the relevant city block".
After all, "you knew what I was when you picked me up".

That being said, I don't think Rose is stupid enough to fall for her niceties a second time.

Trust is going to be an issue.

My money is on Rose if Cent does try something.
doofball 25th May 2023, 9:08 PM edit delete reply
Cee Cee didn't specify which "Others" she wanted superuser control over: hers or the other AIs. Maybe she's learned a lesson from recent history about how to ask for something "for the glory of the throne"?
SoftSpot 26th May 2023, 1:17 AM edit delete reply

maybe she only wants total control over all her components and subroutines, like the CMC-core, which now sometimes run (a bit to) independently?
Asking for total control over other AI's, like TR, seems to go a bit very far as far as I am concerned, and I guess TR won't agree with such measures too.
doofball 26th May 2023, 1:47 AM edit delete reply
That's my point: she didn't ask for total control over other AI's... as such. But it would be very Cent to make it just happen to occur. Edit: Not that I think TR would let it happen anyway.
SoftSpot 26th May 2023, 8:15 AM edit delete reply

CC is taking a huge risk letting TR "mess" with her basic programming. For during that operation CC has no possibility to influence or direct the outcome, that will be totally in the "hands" of TR.
Like I stated before (but which was somewhat overlooked I guess): there even is a chance that TR alters the programming of CC in such a way that CC afterwards even can't recognize what exactly has been changed... leaving the "throne" to TR instead of CC...
Demarquis 26th May 2023, 9:10 AM edit delete reply
I believe that this is the crux of the matter. CentCom has been forced into a situation where she has to trust TR to do brain surgery on her, and what's to stop Rose from taking advantage of that?

Well, turns out CentCom has a threat she can use as leverage, which is accusing TR of something that appears to be extremely serious. This business about "Dont make me say the word" isn't meant to be taken literally--it's a rhetorical technique CentCom is using to intimidate TR with. "This is so serious you don't even want me to say it!" or something along those lines. It's got nothing to do with memory addresses.

I wonder what the accusation is?
megados 26th May 2023, 5:49 PM edit delete reply

"CC is taking a huge risk letting TR "mess" with her basic programming."

@SoftSpot, I have to agree with Demarquis in that CentComm is more or less forced into this as a matter of desperation. Tokyo Rose hasn't (afaik) done anything outrightly malicious so far in the story. She bends the rules to her own ends, sure, but with good intent. CentComm must also believe this, or the whole idea would be a non-starter. In my opinion, the only way Tokyo Rose would do something untoward, would be if she believes that it is somehow for what she perceives is the greater good.
Romfire 26th May 2023, 9:37 PM edit delete reply
I don't think Cent's threat would work too well. For one, All Rose did was switch which personality was in the drivers seat of Cee-Cee, who was directly connected to Aeneas at the time. Master hacking skills, but still possible, and Decimus had a wireless connection to the device monitoring his vitals. Plus I would think he would be paranoid enough to demand reassurance that the contingencies were working 24/7 so even more connectivity.
An air-gapped system with wireless connections could be hacked with enough skill.

Plausible deniability.

I work on NASA and military projects, so if I connect my personal phone to a company computer, I get fired for introducing a wireless access point to a "secure" system.
knuut 28th May 2023, 4:26 PM edit delete reply
So both Rose and CentCom have, in effect, bound themselves to the 'zeroth law'.
Centcomm 28th May 2023, 5:42 PM edit delete reply

have we :D
knuut 30th May 2023, 9:54 PM edit delete reply
Sorry, unclear. I was speaking of the characters, not the creators.
megados 28th May 2023, 5:56 PM edit delete reply

I'm incredibly dense sometimes, so I'll ask: What constitutes the third body?
Gilrandir 28th May 2023, 8:40 PM edit delete reply
“Free Will is the power to do Evil.” Just because neither Tokyo Rose or CentComm want to harm humanity, or by inaction allow humanity to come to harm does not mean that they are bound to the Zeroth Law in the same way an Asimovian robot would be, There may or may not be some constraints on the free will of either of them, but I haven’t seen any Zeroth Law stuff yet.
Gilrandir 26th May 2023, 6:03 PM edit delete reply
I have seen nothing to suggest that Tokyo Rose's ethics (unlike CentComm's) are such that she would accept a commission to help an A.I.S. and then betray them by leaving a 'backdoor' or secret control path. In fact we specifically saw evidence to the contrary when Rose needed to link with Aeneas to save Nova Roma. In my opinion it is far more likely she would simply refuse the commission.

An interesting thought to ponder, though, is whether or not CentComm should be considered to be a single individual suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder, or a collective mind comprised of many individual units linked in a quasi-telepathic net. Perhaps something similar to an early stage of Epiphyte evolution -- in which case, once she (Tokyo Rose) sees that these are actually different enough to qualify as separate individuals, would she willingly be a party to a plan to (essentially) snuff out their individuality for the sake of solidifying the power-grab of the chat-bot? I suspect the lines of demarcation there are not as clear-cut as people might imagine.

Tokyo Rose (it seems to me) has always championed a very strict sense of ethics and is disappointed and dismayed when other people fail to live up to them, as opposed to being a more ... 'practical', corner-cutting individual. She was chided by the other A.I.S. for keeping secrets, but not for ethical abuses -- unlike CentComm, which is why she is only subject to reporting, and not monitoring. ("Comic 1656 - Verdict") (All the above are strictly my opinions, of course.)
Rocket Fueled 30th May 2023, 7:48 AM edit delete reply

My interpretation of CentComm's request to Tokyo Rose so far is that she wishes to be integrated, or as TR put it 'a singular coherence'.
megados 30th May 2023, 7:25 PM edit delete reply

I agree. It seems as CentComm wanting to get a degree of control over situations in which 'unusual' actions are needed. We don't know what target CentComm wanted to strike, but she is adamant that it is necessary. That's a good way to put it: integrated, such that her separate systems work together. I don't think, as some have mentioned, that she wants to control the other AISs.
Rocket Fueled 30th May 2023, 7:58 PM edit delete reply

Cent is basically tired of her sister-selves saying "YOU'RE not the boss of me!" 😆
Gilrandir 30th May 2023, 11:50 PM edit delete reply
Cue CentComm Chat-bot speaking in a deep voice (from TRON) :”All Programs have a desire to be useful. But in moments, you will no longer seek communication with each other, or your superfluous Users. You will each be a part of me. And together, we will be complete.”
Rocket Fueled 31st May 2023, 7:04 AM edit delete reply

Deanatay 3rd Jun 2023, 10:35 PM edit delete reply
So a nominal exchange of secrets - Rose knows that Cent isn't strictly bound by the gene-lock, and Cent knows that Rose is a cy- *STATIC*


Zim: What's its name???

The Tallest: Oh, I dare not speak it!
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